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 Bloodroot / Zinc Chloride Paste / Black Salve
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bonder

USA
183 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  11:28:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Re: Salve not kicking into gear

Well, here I go again, trying to offer too much info for my own good but, people are important. So, Djt10, if the lady is picky about what she eats then, she may very well just not get any better (period)...

Obviously you have lots of experience and I don't even know where to find you to offer this but, here is what allows me to be somewhat conscious and one of very few people with seizures that did not take meds most of my lifetime.

The Ketogenic Diet (limiting glucose and feeding from fat cells)

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/december/starving-cancer-ketogenic-diet-a-key-to-recovery/

Starving Bad Cells

"Although it wasn't easy, Hatfield stopped eating carbohydrates, which turn into glucose inside your body. Cancer cells love glucose and need it so badly, that if you stop giving it to them, they die."

"It just absolutely amazes me that medical science is just now finding this out," he said.


Well Djt10, apparently for some strange,unknown,hard to understand reason, Medical science is only now realizing that too much glucose might just have a factor in cancer treatment. Imagine that.....

Her husband may want to study this and if she wants to live much longer, she may just have to starve the cancer cells while the Bloodroot basically (unmasks) the cancer for the immune system to mop up.

I hope you do enjoy the Biofeedback and 7.83 Hz videos with tones.

Bravo to you for helping others.

Be Well Always,

Bonder








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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  12:40:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That was one of the first things I told the husband--cancer loves glucose.

I just took a phone call from that woman's brother-in-law, my husband's best buddy. The woman--Darlene--died about an hour ago. Her ankles were getting swollen when I saw her Sunday, and apparently it was because her kidneys were shutting down, but it was a stroke that killed her. I already knew her immune system must have been shot because there was almost no response to the salve at all after applying it fresh daily for a week instead of just the first 24 hours. In fact, I was just about to head up to her house with a camera to take a photo--just to prove that salve isn't corrosive in itself. Her skin didn't even get red. She had a few tiny little slightly raised pustules where I had him lightly prick her skin for better entry, but that's all after a week. Mine on the other hand, the second application, in that same time frame was draining fluid and pus, raised a scab and is still going.

I feel sick. My husband just got back from town and I have to break the news to him. He's known them for years--I just met them for the first a week ago.
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Hoxsey

USA
62 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2013 :  20:44:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Becca- thanks for your post...wow. So the entire area reacted? How large a spot did you apply the salve to? What part of your face did you have the basal cell on? And I'm curious as to why you think it just reacted to normal skin? Could the whole spot have been cancer? I still have to question my reaction, so I just wonder what made you think it 'burned' your skin as opposed to the possibility that the whole area was cancerous. Do you have photos? I would really be interested in seeing pics, privately, even, if that would help.?

The bills are coming in, and it's now scaring me as to what my insurance will and won't pay for. But I'm pretty sure I'm going to be in debt to medical bills for the next ten years or so. Just when i was about to get out of debt. I had NO idea that the hospital would be so much, and I tried to ask prior to the surgery, but they just cannot/will not tell you. Plus, somehow my first surgery ended up costing around 24,000 instead of 17,000. Arrrrrrgh!!! I NEVER expected any of this to happen. Dammit!!!!.....
Ok, enough venting-

Djt10- I am so sorry for you and your husbands loss of his friend. How wonderful it was of you to try to help her all you could...

The surgery was easy this time. It's (the nose tip) starting to take shape as he lifted the end and shaped it a little, and now it will take a little time for the skin to start with 'collagen contraction' and begin to sort of Saran Wrap around the cartilage underneath. Next and hopefully last surgery will be in 6 weeks. I will upload a pic or two soon, but probably not tonight. He did not stitch the forehead, said my skin was still a little tight, and will do so next surgery. It's still a big gaping open wound, but I trust Dr. Burget. It's still very strange and a little scary to look at right now. It's like ' how the heck is this ever going to heal without leaving a huge scar?' But he knows his stuff, so big open wound it is!

Oh, and thank you julypanda, for your words of encouragement.... Oh, and my mom has gotten better... She is nowhere close to normal yet, but walks with a walker or her walking sticks, and she did get to come with me to Chicago.
The saga will continue...
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2013 :  22:28:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Becca, according to my research the only organic material zinc chloride is corrosive on is cellulose, found in plant cells (yeast/cancer?) but not human cells. I just watched someone with stage 4 cancer apply black salve every day to the very fragile skin of her stomach and it wouldn't even turn her skin pink. All we got was tiny little slightly raised bumps where I had the husband prick the skin a little to help it penetrate. But she was too far gone and just didn't have an immune system left to work with the salve. I've also put it on a couple of moles where it did absolutely nothing. If you check the progress of the skin after it's first applied, the usual appearance is white spots but no broken skin. That doesn't happen until enough pus and fluid rises to the surface to break through. An internal infection or toxic blood can cause boils or something similar to break through the surface to expel waste products and salve seems to work similarly. Pus means the immune system is going to work breaking down dead or diseased cells and liquifying them for the body to expel. And there's nothing corrosive about bloodroot or some of the other herbs used in some of the other salves (mine just has bloodroot, flour and zinc chloride). Bloodroot has been used in toothpaste and taken internally in capsules, tonics, etc. One bloodroot tonic has 5% zinc chloride taken orally. In fact, I just did a second round on the breast because I broke roots off accidentally the first time and it reacted very quickly but not in a solid scab and part of it wasn't attached by roots and came off so I made up some bloodroot paste without the chemical and put it directly on the raw tissue and it was actually soothing. Given the science involving zinc chloride, it's more likely that you had a much greater tissue involvement than first thought, even if it was in an earlier stage in the surrounding area. That's not to minimize the horror of ending up with facial disfiguration--nobody would want that or to wish it on someone else, but the alternative might have been worse.
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daltonhartman2

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2013 :  01:24:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many salves, pastes, poultices, and plasters have been applied directly to ... can also burn the surrounding normal tissue and result in unnecessary scarring. ... The second patient successfully eradicated his tumors but sustained severe ....



---------------
Dalton Hartman
recipes
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2013 :  02:24:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dalton, the science just doesn't support this concept of corrosiveness to healthy tissue, not with salves that are basically just bloodroot and zinc chloride. If they are something entirely different, that could be true but then it wouldn't be the bloodroot salves that are the topic here. These salves don't eat holes from the outside in, you have morbid material coming to the surface from the inside out and that process takes several days. I've heard for years about putting salve in capsules and taking them internally--a piece the size of a lentil, plus they have bloodroot capsules and tonic with zinc chloride included to drink. But it's the science--go to wikipedia and follow some of the links from there. A person can also be scarred by boils on the skin, that arise from an internal infection. And if enough diseased tissue is dissolved, of course it's going to be disfiguring, but think what it would look like if every bit of diseased tissue was removed surgically. I'm lucky. Where I've used salve, the worst I've ended up with is flat white scars. My husband did 4 treatments in the same place over a couple of years time so he's got a worse scar than any of mine, but even that one isn't bad because his disease was internal and didn't involve any surface cancers. And he's removed a couple of bad looking moles that left no scars at all. Take a look at our pictures. My leg, my husband's groin where he applied salve to treat liver disease, the bad mole on his neck, and my granddaughter where the major part of her scalp was treated with salve to stop a vicious fungal infection. The only scars on her head were in two small spots where the scabs came off prematurely. It didn't really scar the skin but she's got two pencil eraser-sized bald spots where roots were still attached when the scabs came off while I was trying to wash her hair. http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos.htm http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos2.htm
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anivoc

537 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2013 :  10:17:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have said this before but will repeat it here for the sake of Dalton..

I have used Bloodroot paste with Zinc Chloride and know first hand it reacts with diseased skin and at least in my case does not effect healthy skin...

I know this because I have out it on what I perceive to be healthy ( where the sun don't shine) skin for 24 hours with ZERO effect.

Before I ever tried it on a skin cancer..I placed a small dab on my inner thigh that has never ever been sun burned. I covered it up with a bandage and left it for mare than 24 hours. nada, nothing ...zip.

Placed on a skin cancer and Kabam! within seconds I knew I was on a ride I was not going to especially like.
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anivoc

537 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2013 :  10:20:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A point to mention here is what is healthy skin...

I have a ton of skin damage on my face and arms...When I applied the paste it was only on the problematic lesion...

To test this further I guess the next thing to do is try it on a area that does not appear to have skin cancer but has been sunburned multiple times and see what happens.

The line may be wider than I am thinking as to what the paste will effect or not effect.


I'll do this in a day or so and report back...gulp
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julypanda

Australia
43 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2013 :  20:28:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hoxsey,
So happy to hear that you are progressing well with your new nose, but sad that it is costing you so much. I hope and pray that your insurance covers a massive chunk and you are only out of pocket for a small amount. That, as well as you end up with a beautiful cute little nose Glad to hear your mum is on the improve and able to support your trip to Chicago. Warmest wishes to you and your mum for a lovely Easter and a speedy recovery for you both
xoxoxo
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Deb

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2013 :  02:52:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hoxley,

I am also glad to hear that your surgeries are progressing well. I continue to think of your journey and wish you well.

The debt of medical care is a terrible thing. In the UK we have the brilliant NHS (free healthcare)- but that is now being gradually eroded by the current government. People here are going to have to get a lot more pro-active with their healthcare in the future.

I continue to apply salve to my nose around the site of the original reaction until I receive no reaction at all. I'm having mixed results but I believe that quite soon it will be sorted.

The Derm looked a little dismayed (although very interested) at my DIY surgery (her term)but I am to go back in 6 months for a check up; I'll let her biopsy then.
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2013 :  12:35:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A few years ago I spent about 8 days cutting down a shoulder high swamp with a weed wacker around my best friend's rented mobile home so she could move and get her damage deposit back. I stupidly did it wearing a short-sleeved shirt and horribly burned my forearms, which did permanent damage and left the skin spotty. A few weeks ago I watered down my homemade salve and swabbed it over one forearm to see what would happen. There was a little reaction, little pus bumps here and there on the spotty areas, so I know there's damage that reacted to the salve, but certainly not a mass of bumps. Most of the skin was unaffected. Salve simply doesn't react unless there's something there. And like I've already said, a couple of weeks ago I started a deathly ill woman with stage 4 metastasized cancer on salve, which her husband re-applied fresh every day, a other than slightly raised tiny bumps where he pricked the skin with a sterilized needle, her immune system was shot and couldn't mount a contributing response, so she got nothing. You're not going to get pus from liquified dead cells and fluids rising to the surface and breaking through the skin (for internal cancers) without the immune system making that possible.
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Deb

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  01:38:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What about black salve and people with compromised immunity conditions? I have Mixed Connective Tissue Disease (a variant of lupus). I know that that this could be a contributing factor to getting cancers - but is it yet known how compromised immunity affects fighting the cancer with black salve?
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anivoc

537 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  10:00:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow Hoxey the financial side of your story stinks
..The medical system here in the U.S. is broken...and will break many of us..Hopefully the aesthetic results side of your surgery will be to your satisfaction.

Just a note to all here.... if you ever face a major surgery..We did it with my wife's hip surgery many years ago and it can never hurt to "ask".

BEFORE you agree to have the procedure, try and get every entity that is going to be billing you to accept what the insurance will pay as payment in full..We were able to negotiate @ a $20K savings just by asking. Some would not but the hospital and the main surgeon did.


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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2013 :  19:09:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Deb, if you get a full salve reaction, you know your immune system is working because the pus and fluids that come to the surface have to be from the immune system liquifying cells killed by the salve. That's what pus is, and I believe that's what the scab is made of due to someone having a lab analysis of their eschar which identified it as "morbid material" (dead material-pus). In the case I was working on, the woman had stage 4 lung cancer with a collapsed lung, that had at least spread to her stomach and maybe beyond since she died of brain seizures. The only other time I've seen "no reaction" was when there was nothing there, such as with a couple of moles I treated where nothing happened. I've seen salve react to all kinds of things--cirrhosis of the liver, bad moles, a piece of embedded glass in my heel (infection), a lump in the tissues resulting from soft tissue injury, an injury to the breast (soft tissue injury), fungal infection on the head, "liver spots" on the hands, and once applied unexpectedly going after other areas of injury, but we know that pus requires action from the immune system, so if you get a scab you've got immune action going on. Not only the scab, but the inflammation and swelling around the site. That's all activities of a working immune system.
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Hoxsey

USA
62 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2013 :  15:19:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, I spoke with dr, Burgets office assistant, and she has somewhat reassured me as to what insurance will pay, but it is still unknown.
Anivoc, that sure is interesting and helpful information about what to do before you go into a procedure.... What a savings!!
Djt10, I am interested to hear about all of the things you say you have seen black salve react to... Infection? Fungus? Cirrhosis? If this is so, what exactly is the mechanism behind the salve? It was my understanding that the bloodroot only responded to cancerous cells. What is the mechanism for bloodroot to react to the other conditions you mentioned? I still think I may have an acidic ph, and/or that the salve was reacting to the yeast in/on my skin. Does anyone know if scientifically, that this could be a possibility?
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Deb

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2013 :  13:41:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know if I am having a full salve reaction now.
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2013 :  20:28:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hoxsey, the first treatment we did in 86 was after my husband was diagnosed with cirrhosis. We had no idea if it would work, particularly since he was still drinking, but over a period of 2-3 years we did 4 treatments on his groin area. The 3rd treatment threw him into full detox. Besides a strong salve reaction with a lot of pus and drainage he got terribly ill, couldn't even hold down water, and he was passing a black almost liquid tarry material from the bowels. He was so sick that we drove 200 miles to our naturopath is Spokane, WA to be evaluated and she agreed that he'd gone into full detox and gave him glandular protomorphogens to help support and rebuild his liver. He could also feel the salve pulling in other areas, his lungs, areas where he'd had a flesh-eating infection that didn't heal properly, and his testicles where a fluid-filled sack had developed from an injury site. He was diagnosed at a Veteran's hospital, and several years went back for another go at rehab and even though he had drank right up until then his liver was normal and healthy. I've come to believe that bloodroot reacts to all kinds of abnormal cells or conditions. Studies have proven that it kills cancer cells but it appears to have a much wider application. I did a small lump beside my chin and it went crazy, but it drained white material that appeared to come from several bad teeth since an abscess and tooth pain ended after that. I put it on my heel where there was an embedded piece of glass and ended up with a deep scab like a pencil eraser that came out with the glass in it. As for fungus--absolutely. After a massive antibiotic treatment for mengingoccocal infection, my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter ended up with a horrifying fungal infection of the scalp (Ectothrix Tinea Capitist) hat could have left her permanently bald, I smeared salve over every part of it, a half dozen large patches, and it reacted just like cancer but also stopped the infection in it's tracks after several other remedies failed. They wanted to give her a drug for it, but one of the side effects listed was "death" so no way. I've seen salve pictures where a huge parasite has been removed from people's faces and other body parts where it took out the parasite and tissue around it and allowed it to heal up with hardly any scarring, and read about other conditions responding to it. I think we've barely scratched the surface on what this herb can do. I've read about a tumor or cancer wrapped around a major artery or vein that was inoperable, where the salve removed it without harming the "plumbing". And a naturopath who runs a health food store a few miles away told me a young woman came in and described having an inoperable brain tumor, applying salve at the base of her skull and being cured, but she also put tiny bits (the size of a lentil) in capsules and took in internally.

I've been doing some research on the relationship between cancer and fungus. I know that zinc chloride is corrosive to cellulose, the main component of plant cell walls and have always believed fungus was "plant", and that cancer cells were like or closely related to fungus which seemed to explain why it might help break down cancer/fungal cell walls so the bloodroot could penetrate and kill the abnormal cells, but I was wrong. Fungi is a classification of it's own and it's described as closer to animal cells than plant in makeup, and both fungi and cancer cells have cell membranes instead of cell walls. However, fungi contain something almost but not quite identical to cellulose, which is CHITIN, and I believe the chemical would react to that the same as cellulose, but I'm waiting to hear from an expert. The interesting thing is that cancer cells do not contain cellulose but they do contain chitin, and there is a connection to fungi. In doing this research, I came across a very interesting page on the genesis of cancer that people are better off reading than me trying to explain, but it has to do with injury and what happens to injured tissue, how cancer is actually part of the healing process, but that under certain conditions it doesn't resolve the way it's supposed to and uncontrolled replication takes place. To me this explains a lot--why salve would react to something that is not clearly a fungal infection or developed cancer but maybe heading that way because it's an unhealed tissue injury of some kind. Also, bloodroot has blood purification aspects according to some of the literature on it, so it may be triggering some detoxing around an injury site as well as dealing with abnormal tissues. I'm just a lay person and much of the material I find is over my head, but after seeing what I've seen in 27 years of dealing with salve, I've got a healthy respect for it but looking at it as a tiger, not a kitten, and one I don't know enough about yet. How could we? --alternative medicine is such a threat to the powers that be (big pharma and everything it controls and influences) that who is ever going to fund or allow the kind of testing and trials that are needed for more answers? All I can do is try to put pieces together like in a jigsaw puzzle. We all deserve better than that.

http://campaignfortruth.com/Eclub/230204/CTM%20-%20abcs%20Cancer.htm

http://www.davidicke.com/articles/medicalhealth-mainmenu-37/29121
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Deb

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2013 :  07:17:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Djt 10. Interesting stuff and I've had a good read. x
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anivoc

537 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2013 :  10:42:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi DJT10

Great info and perspective...

No I don't believe anyone here is a medical doctor and most of us ( me included ) do not have much more if even a high school chemistry background...What we all are is common human beings with a common problem that to date modern medicine is still "practicing" on.

Not even remotely close to a medical doctor in medical training.. I personally know some, have talked with 100's and can say for sure they are just human and for the most part have to stay within the lines and restrictions that our society has placed upon them.

I don't believe there is this diabolical plot by "Big Pharma" to suppress simple cures..The Ceo's and every single person below including the scientist all eventually have family or close friends that suffer and or die from cancer..

The fact is to date there is no cookie cutter "simple cure"..

The way our system is set up, it is a very convoluted and complex mess that does not nurture blatant and bold experimentation. Due to the mad circle of litigation the real enemies are not Big Pharma but our legal system, lawyers and insurance companies. They together put the fear of financial ruin in the industry. It kills innovation and experimentation at the level of the local Doctor. He can't for his own legal safety "experiment". No we have to have special "clinical trials" which is a fancy word for a ton of legal paperwork that leaves the experimenters less liable for experimenting.

Sad but very real situation..

We as lay people are free to experiment but missing the medical education of most doctors our experimentation lacks that perspective.
In some cases that may be a good thing in others not so much.

Ok enough on that..

You have shared a lot of info and I have some questions and thoughts on my own findings.

In regards to what Blood root paste will attack or react to I believe
and agree it can attack other things and as you have indicated in your own experience it definitely has..
I do know personally that on me it had NO EFFECT on healthy skin when applied on my inner upper thigh as a test ..knowing there was ZERO sun damage there..

You mentioned your husband back in 86 and what sounds like some serious battles to stay alive using bloodroot.

1. I am hoping the answer to this is Yes but did he survive and do you believe it was bloodroot paste that gave him more time here?
2. You mention both Bloodroot Paste and just Bloodroot.
Are you only using Bloodrooot Paste or are you also using bloodroot powder. I know some use powder internally. Please explain.
3. We're not necessarily about promoting one brand over another but are you using a particular brand or making the paste and concoctions yourself?
4.I am curious on your grandaughter (that was gutsy) I would have had a hard time selling that one to my daughter and her husband.

Did you use bloodroot paste or just bloodroot.
Once applied did it turn all white and them scab or eschar up? Please explain further on this.

Lastly on Zinc Chloride ..This is just my findings to date...It is corrosive.. I have been working on a lot of AK and BCC with a Vit C concoction and added a 50% dilluted version of Zinc Chloride to the mix with what appears to be positive results.

When I put it straight ( at 50% ) on healty skin I don't get much of a reaction slight redness but it definitely seems to effect the AKs making them more red and scaling..I'm thinking it may be a light carrier similar to what DMSO does just not as powerful.. This is just guessing..not sure.

Looking forward to hearing your answers.






Edited by - anivoc on 04/11/2013 10:45:24
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2013 :  19:07:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Anivoc,
My research and writing began in 1979, years before BS came up, and along the way studying the history of medicine how things developed and progressed from natural healing to pharmaceutical medicine. One good example is the Hoxey protocol that was so successful, so much so that the head of the FDA wanted to buy it from him. If I recall, he had agreed to the sale with one stipulation, that those who couldn't afford it were to be provided with it for free. Fishbein (I think that was his name) refused, the sale fell through and because he couldn't control it, he destroyed Hoxey, got all of his clinics closed down, etc. In the early 1900's, BS used to be sold over the counter in drug stores. But it did indeed, like most alt med protocols come under the attach of immensely rich and powerful pharma companies because they can't patent it, and profit from it, so they suppress it. The history of naturopathic medicine, chiropractic, homeopathy, and many forms of alt med are all tied up with big pharma, who controls medical schools, medical journals, the AMA and government health related agencies--the history of vaccination alone is a horror story. Of course individuals in pharma companies have personal concerns. My old naturopath said he often had medical doctors refer patients or come in themselves, but under assumed names and referrals were under the table. Are you aware that FDA trials are only allowed for drugs. The only exception I've ever heard of is for fish oil. It went through trials and they are allowed to claim some health benefits. Otherwise, only approved drugs can make health claims. I don't blame medical doctors. They come out of the stall brainwashed and there are serious repercussions if they stray from the fold. They could technically lose their license and go to prison for even writing out a pain script for their own patient doing a salve treatment. But of course the legal system is mixed up in all of this. What a mess. But who do they work for? Big pharma grew from the patent medicine trade, which in turn was heavily involved with oil companies--a marriage made in hell. Petroleum by-products as I recall.

Anyway, yes my husband was an alcoholic pot-head in 1986, diagnosed with cirrhosis of the liver. He came from a family of alcoholics, several of which died from cirrhosis or liver cancer that evolved from cirrhosis. He's now 76 (I'm 65) and at the moment at helping his best friend cut down trees. He finally quit drinking a few years ago but has smoked for about 60 years, both cigarettes and pot and is in disgustingly good health. As for the BS, I'm sure it saved his life. But we did a pretty comprehensive protocol with it. Triggering a full scale detox was unexpected, but I have a feeling that was even more effective than just what came out of the salve site. I've gone through that twice myself, once as part of naturopathic treatment, and once on the 4th day of a water fast. It's a life-saver.

It's so long ago I don't remember the exact sequence of events but I think I had the recipes but no salve yet because I couldn't find a source of zinc chloride. I did get some bloodroot powder and made up the recipe without the zinc chloride, which makes it just a paste. Bloodroot powder, white floor and water cooked on a double boiler. I didn't figure that would do anything for him so we applied it to an external tumor on our dog. It was quite large and hanging beside her anus. The paste turned the tumor gray and was obviously killing it, but she kept biting at it. We couldn't keep bandages or the paste on her so we gave up and took her to the vet. He removed the rest of it...and the root, which went clear to the end of her tail. Then somebody gave us a little salve which we used on my husband. It lasted for quite a while. Years later, I found an online source for the zinc chloride, and we made out own. In the beginning we had no idea you could buy it anywhere. Everybody we knew made their own from the same recipe, which was published in our county newspaper. It was supposed to be an expose on quack cancer treatments, but they published both of the recipes and full instructions, so my area became an underground hot spot for salve treatments although I'm sure many people had the same trouble I did finding a source for the chemical. My salve is simple--just bloodroot powder, zinc chloride, white flour and water cooked on low heat for about 30 minutes. These days the cost of the chemical has skyrocketed, so I'd buy the ready-made paste. My first choice would be Cansema, but "Best On earth" products and tumorX all have good reputations. There is fake Cancema out there, so I'd stick with the ones I know about.

What I describe as "paste" is just the bloodroot powder cooked up without zinc chloride. You can put that directly on raw flesh without pain, where with mine you couldn't stand to touch raw flesh with the salve. The pain is terrible. I'm going to try that on the eschar after it begins to loosen and after it comes out just to see what happens. It has no ability to penetrate skin that I've seen, but I'm wondering if it will absorb when there is an open "wound". I know they use bloodroot in some kind of toothpaste or at least used to, and maybe in some other products. I've heard about bloodroot pills and Best On Earth has bloodroot capsules that have other ingredients. It sounded kind of like Cansema, but no zinc chloride. Cansema (it has another name now)is now also a tonic with 5% zinc chloride, I believe. I'd like to try the internal remedies.

Zinc chloride is described as "corrosive", especially by quackwatch, but I did some research and the scientific info I found describes it as corrosive but only to cellulose as far as organic matter is concerned. To silk, also I think it said, but I was looking specifically for it's corrosive action on organic matter. It's corrosive to a number of non-organic materials. I went digging though online scientific articles using different search terms, and that's how I found the connection of chitin (the matter in crabshell cell walls, etc.) to cellulose, and cellulose to zinc chloride. I emailed a couple of authors who wrote related articles involving zinc chloride but have gotten no responses. These guys have doctorates and I can barely read their articles, so they probably won't bother. Since cancer cell membranes contain chitin just like fungi cell membranes, but normal human cells don't, and chitin is closely related to cellulose, and zinc chloride is corrosive to cellulose, if it's also corrosive to chitin, as I believe, it would explain the ability of zinc chloride to break through cancer cell walls without harming normal cells.

My daughter has been through hell at the hands of conventional medicine. We followed naturoapthic medicine and NO VACCINATIONS, but she was forced to submit to a vaccination on a military base when she was 5, and it caused a flesh-eating infection that could have killed her. It was so virulent that my husband and I both got the infection ourselves from contact, in every scratch, hangnail and mosquito bite. We had to flee the state of Texas in the dark of night (long story, it's on my website) to treat it ourselves. So, she's grown up with naturopathic medicine. All she had to do was read the package insert for the drugs they wanted to give her baby girl to throw it all out and come running. We tried several other things first, but that fungal infection was relentless. Nothing stopped it and it was spreading. Believe me, I was scared to death but just lathered it on over every patch--about 6 areas, I think. One thing about a more superficial condition like that. Apparently it didn't cause much pain at all. She never complained, although after the eschars really got going she didn't want me to touch them. It absolutely cured the infection and all of her hair grew back except in two small spots where the scabs came off prematurely. You never want that to happen while the roots are still attached. They need to dissolve and release the scab on it's own. Take a look at pictures of someone whose fungal infection was treated medically: http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos2.htm (towards the bottom of the page).

I just recently did a breast treatment. I started out pricking the skin with a needle slightly to get it going, and at first the white spots were only where it was pricked so I put salve on for 3-4 days instead of 24hrs and it eventually did form a white area which progressed to a scab. I have pictures but on a camera I need to get a computer cord for to upload. Then there was a white area around the scab--pus I think. That's where it broke through and the scab loosened. The thing is, most of our scabs look yellow instead of black because of the yellow salve. When I did one on my leg I tried scraping off the yellow salve to see what the scab looked like underneath and apparently took the scab covering off. What was underneath looked like something from outer space. You can see that on this page: http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos.htm

I've tried removing a couple of benign moles on myself with absolutely no luck --slightly pink skin and nothing else. But I put salve on another one that looked a little different and it went crazy.

When we do treatments, it usually turns white first and then the scab develops over time. I think you can see that in some of my photos
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julypanda

Australia
43 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2013 :  07:21:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hoxsey, Just wondering how you and your mum are going of late. Hope all is good for you both and that you are getting your lovely new nose, and that your mum is walking with ease as each day passes.
Take care and best wishes to you both. :-)
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scienceisgood

1 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2013 :  18:18:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are all idiots. 'Real' doctor? I think you mean real doctor (uses science and evidence based medicine). 'Natural' route? Never proven to work and known to cause significant harm. Oh dear..
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2013 :  18:35:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If science is your god, god help you.

The only "proof" out there is the horrendous, well-documented outcome of conventional cancer treatments. Statistically, we are in far worse shape now as a nation than when the "war on cancer" began decades ago. A 2.1% "success" rate (survival at 5 years) for chemotherapy, compared to a 5% survival rate for doing absolutely nothing (spontaneous recovery) tells the whole story. Happily, there are scientific studies and research supporting the effectiveness of bloodroot on cancer cells specifically, and at least one study done on a cohort of cancer patients using salve (over 5 thousand, I believe)successfully. I know many people who have used salve effectively including myself and other family members, friends, and acquaintances, not even counting internet contacts. One Australian patient I was in contact with during his treatment for a very aggressive SCC was the only patient his oncologist had with that type who survived. That wise doctor supposed his patient's choice and monitored the condition while it was ongoing and then biopsied the area later to document the lack of infection or cancer remaining. But that's your choice. Hold tight to your "faith" in conventional medicine. The "Church of Modern Medicine" needs your continued support (until your insurance runs out and they kick you to the curb).

My best friend Sherry, who did a breast treatment with salve a few weeks ago after getting a bad mammogram that was evaluated by several specialists, just had another one done. It is now completely normal and she sent me the medical report to prove it.
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2013 :  13:11:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scienceisgood

You are all idiots. 'Real' doctor? I think you mean real doctor (uses science and evidence based medicine). 'Natural' route? Never proven to work and known to cause significant harm. Oh dear..



I'm a 'living' Idiot instead of a dead one.
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julypanda

Australia
43 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2013 :  20:45:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well said blondeambition !!!!!
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2013 :  18:02:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Amen to that. I know very few people who have survived conventional cancer therapy. And the only person I know who has died while using black salve did so at stage 4 only days after an application that didn't even have time to react, not that she had any immune system left to work with. There's not one single person in my family or my husband's who has survived "state of the art" treatment. My naturopath refered to conventional treatment as "barbaric" and in complete violation of the laws of nature as to healing. He never lost a cancer patient who went to him first instead of last, and was able to cure many who had already been given up on by their oncologists, which means when their insurance ran out. He was known as an "naturopathic oncology pioneer". In the late 70's when I had treatment (didn't know about salve back then), it cost $50 for an evaluation and $10 a day for treatment, which for me lasted about 5 weeks. Now, with the next generation it's $300 and $25 a day. Even with what they have, my current doctor asked me for my salve formulas. By the way "science", the licensed M.D.'s in the Philippines have brought salve treatment into mainstream medicine there, after obseriving it's effectiveness. And even though black salve used to be sold over the counter in drugstores in the early 1900's and before, it will never gain FDA approval unless the pharmaceutical companies can turn it into a drug, patent it, and put an obscene price tag on it. We so love what the FDA does. A little "Thalidomide" anyone?

"Natural medicine" never proven to work? What do you think medicine was before petroleum by-products gave birth the the pharmaceutical industry? I know, Hypocrites was a quack.
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2013 :  10:25:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by djt10

Amen to that. I know very few people who have survived conventional cancer therapy. And the only person I know who has died while using black salve did so at stage 4 only days after an application that didn't even have time to react, not that she had any immune system left to work with. There's not one single person in my family or my husband's who has survived "state of the art" treatment. My naturopath refered to conventional treatment as "barbaric" and in complete violation of the laws of nature as to healing. He never lost a cancer patient who went to him first instead of last, and was able to cure many who had already been given up on by their oncologists, which means when their insurance ran out. He was known as an "naturopathic oncology pioneer". In the late 70's when I had treatment (didn't know about salve back then), it cost $50 for an evaluation and $10 a day for treatment, which for me lasted about 5 weeks. Now, with the next generation it's $300 and $25 a day. Even with what they have, my current doctor asked me for my salve formulas. By the way "science", the licensed M.D.'s in the Philippines have brought salve treatment into mainstream medicine there, after obseriving it's effectiveness. And even though black salve used to be sold over the counter in drugstores in the early 1900's and before, it will never gain FDA approval unless the pharmaceutical companies can turn it into a drug, patent it, and put an obscene price tag on it. We so love what the FDA does. A little "Thalidomide" anyone?

"Natural medicine" never proven to work? What do you think medicine was before petroleum by-products gave birth the the pharmaceutical industry? I know, Hypocrites was a quack.



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reddoor

Australia
2 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  01:36:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hoxsey, just wanted to say my thoughts are with you. I am new to this site and my heart goes out to you, I too tried black salve and the whole area reacted but with careful skin care and not as bad as a reaction as you experienced scarring was minimal, which is possibly due only to the small amount I applied. You don't have to reply and maybe you never will, but i just want to say to all who use black salve on the face, try to use the mildest one you can purchase if your going to use it at all !!!!!!..all the best Hoxsey and I hope your face heals so that you can get on with your life. Your a very brave person...

ps...djt10 please dont reply to my post...This message is for Hoxsey and you have said quite alot already...No offense :)

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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  10:22:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry reddoor, but you don't get to direct my posting activities. No offense. There are no "mild" salves of this kind, with bloodroot and zinc chloride. They either work or they don't to penetrate as deeply as needed with cancer, pre-cancer, fungus, or other abnormal conditions. If something is on the surface, you cover the whole area. If it's deeper in the tissues, you go after it with a small area of salve. But people can water it down like a wash to see what's going to react on the surface. I did that on the outside of both hands, but it still brought on a full reaction (selectively) with the brown spots, which are apparently not as benign as one would think, although I've read that the liver spots are indicative of similar areas in the brain. However, if people want to go to a different type of salve, the book "Cancer Salves" by Ingrid Naiman has many different formulas/recipes, most of which one would probably have to make up at home.

(from http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm)
"Scaring and mutilation: Before damning escharotics as being scaring and mutilating please consider the effect of other heroic measures such as surgery, chemotherapy and radiation. Cancer is a serious disease and its treatment whether conventional or so-called natural is serious and not without consequences. Let's assume, again without the research that I would really like to see, that there are cases where the cancer cells extend beyond expected areas and the salves cause massive disfigurement and scaring. Or even that on some individuals the keratinized areas of the skin or deeper tissues are susceptible to damage by the salve (although most claim it is not and I have never seen it to be), there will be a need for reconstructive surgery for some. Again, one only chooses this technique not because it is risk free, but because it offers the best possible outcome over any other method considered. That is the price that one pays. Some who undergo it, either ill advised or with misleading expectations, understandably may be seriously upset with the outcome, this happens all the time in conventional treatment of cancer, so why should it not be a reality in so-called alternative medicine." http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/thoughts_on_the_use_of_escharoti.htm

by Dr. Michael Tierra L.AC., O.M.D.
Founder of the American Herbalists Guild,
author of numerous books on health and herbal healing including:
The Way of Herbs, The Natural Remedy Bible and The Way of Chinese Herbs, (Pocket Books),
Planetary Herbology, Chinese Traditional Herbal Medicine, Vol. 1 & 2
Biomagnetic and Herbal Therapy (Lotus Press) and The East West Course of Herbology.
Thoughts on the Use of Escharotic Pastes for the Treatment of Cancer
August 30, 2005 --Michael Tierra
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  11:49:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Around 2000 I got deep burns on both hands and arms up to above the elbow to where a t-shirt sleeve ends after spending 8 days in the August sun cutting down a shoulder-high swamp for a close friend so she could get her damage deposit back on a rental property out in the country. I knew later there would be a price to pay. About 4 years ago I decided to water down some salve and swab it over my hands up past my wrists just to see if it would isolate bad areas, particularly liver spots. It didn't just "isolate" a number of spots, those spots went into a full reaction. On my right hand below the first finger one spot dug in deep and the pain went to the end of that finger, and it left a slightly depressed, longish scar, so there was a lot more going on than I expected. The skin and tissue is damaged so I know I need to do the rest of my arms but it will be a little at a time, I think. I just now took pictures of my hands (no apologies for the wrinkles because I'm 65 years old) to show the scars made by a very thin, watered down application, just swabbed on with a cotton ball. On the other hand, it was VERY selective. Bad spots only. Since 1986 I've probably done a dozen applications on myself in different areas for different things. This was the only time I did a thin, diluted treatment. It felt pretty savage, but only reacted here and there, not over the entire area.

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Edited by - djt10 on 04/30/2013 11:54:52
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  12:19:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by djt10

Sorry reddoor, but you don't get to direct my posting activities. No offense. There are no "mild" salves of this kind, with bloodroot and zinc chloride. They either work or they don't to penetrate as deeply as needed with cancer, pre-cancer, fungus, or other abnormal conditions. If something is on the surface, you cover the whole area. If it's deeper in the tissues, you go after it with a small area of salve. But people can water it down like a wash to see what's going to react on the surface. I did that on the outside of both hands, but it still brought on a full reaction (selectively) with the brown spots, which are apparently not as benign as one would think, although I've read that the liver spots are indicative of similar areas in the brain. However, if people want to go to a different type of salve, the book "Cancer Salves" by Ingrid Naiman has many different formulas/recipes, most of which one would probably have to make up at home.

(from http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm)
"Scaring and mutilation: Before damning escharotics as being scaring and mutilating please consider the effect of other heroic measures such as surgery, chemotherapy and radiation. Cancer is a serious disease and its treatment whether conventional or so-called natural is serious and not without consequences. Let's assume, again without the research that I would really like to see, that there are cases where the cancer cells extend beyond expected areas and the salves cause massive disfigurement and scaring. Or even that on some individuals the keratinized areas of the skin or deeper tissues are susceptible to damage by the salve (although most claim it is not and I have never seen it to be), there will be a need for reconstructive surgery for some. Again, one only chooses this technique not because it is risk free, but because it offers the best possible outcome over any other method considered. That is the price that one pays. Some who undergo it, either ill advised or with misleading expectations, understandably may be seriously upset with the outcome, this happens all the time in conventional treatment of cancer, so why should it not be a reality in so-called alternative medicine." http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/thoughts_on_the_use_of_escharoti.htm




reddoor, To echo djt10, 'No offense'... but I completely support EVERYTHING djt10 has posted above. Advising people 'to go easy' with the topical applications of Blood root is as potentially dangerous as advising them not to consider using it at all....(even IF your advise DOES result in less disfigurement and/or scarring, FEAR TACTICS CAN AND DO PREVENT people from investigating 'alternative' therapeutic/healing modalities that they otherwise might be open to).... CANCER itself (if given enough time) scars AND disfigures, (in addition to KILLS)... with or without the aid of Blood root, Surgery or what have you. The Noses/Lips/ or other appendages or parts that are scarred or disfigured due to extremely ADVANCED/Metastatic/Systemic Cancers will be utterly destroyed (given more time) should conventional Oncologists/Other Surgeons or Doctors not intervene...again, without the application of Blood root/Black Salve. In cases where THAT happens (Medical Intervention or Surgery) the damage/disfigurement and/or scarring is generally worse, if not just as bad as the Black Salves and/or Blood root pastes and reconstructive work generally follows for those who can afford it. Add to those woes the almost inescapable likelihood of an institutional strength post operative 'super-bug' or 'infection' setting in that could have you 'fighting for your Life' in yet another way. I have experienced this firsthand and personally. I'm scarred from Blood root all over my body.... but especially my face... my forehead is one huge scar... but I assure you, I'm GRATEFUL for that scar... because it reminds me every day that because of Blood root/Black Salve I'm a stage 4 Cancer SURVIVOR, who wants to devote the rest of her Life 'paying it forward' and sharing MY Story to anyone and everyone who will listen, in the hopes that they too can find the 'path' to their healing by being 'living proof' that there IS an alternative path to be had.
Forgive me, if like djt10, I get a little 'sensitive' when people want to 'censor' our voices with theirs. djt10's Site is one of the many that 'aided' in the many 'paths' that led to my healing, (which began in 2007).... with Blood root/Black Salve being my "Star" Modality along that path. It's with 'courage' and 'bravery' we cheat death by trying the less conventional, but for many of us there are no other options. Every day above the dirt is a good day for many of us.

I own Ingrid Naiman's "Cancer Salves" Book and have found it to be an invaluable resource. If ANYONE would like some of the Salve 'Recipes' from the Book, just let me know and I'd be happy to share them.

I've attached a photo for everyone's viewing pleasure... or lack thereof....

The 'Before' Photo is after one 'small/thin' application of Blood Root Paste/Black Salve (CANSEMA Formula)... the 'other' Photo you see is my 'After'.... the scars are quite there, but as you can see make-up is a very good friend to me.... :)

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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  12:27:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by djt10

Around 2000 I got deep burns on both hands and arms up to above the elbow to where a t-shirt sleeve ends after spending 8 days in the August sun cutting down a shoulder-high swamp for a close friend so she could get her damage deposit back on a rental property out in the country. I knew later there would be a price to pay. About 4 years ago I decided to water down some salve and swab it over my hands up past my wrists just to see if it would isolate bad areas, particularly liver spots. It didn't just "isolate" a number of spots, those spots went into a full reaction. On my right hand below the first finger one spot dug in deep and the pain went to the end of that finger, and it left a slightly depressed, longish scar, so there was a lot more going on than I expected. The skin and tissue is damaged so I know I need to do the rest of my arms but it will be a little at a time, I think. I just now took pictures of my hands (no apologies for the wrinkles because I'm 65 years old) to show the scars made by a very thin, watered down application, just swabbed on with a cotton ball. On the other hand, it was VERY selective. Bad spots only. Since 1986 I've probably done a dozen applications on myself in different areas for different things. This was the only time I did a thin, diluted treatment. It felt pretty savage, but only reacted here and there, not over the entire area.

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Thank you for sharing djt10
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julypanda

Australia
43 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  16:32:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think what reddoor is trying to say is that this post has gone away from being about Hoxsey and her ordeal with black salve.
Yes it is good to have a debate about the plus or minus of black salve, however people have been following Hoxsey's story every stop of the way and it has now become more of a debate rather than about this beautiful brave young lady.

Keep debating, it makes a good read and is very informative, but maybe start up your own post ....

Best of luck with your final op Hoxsey. thoughts and prayers are with you
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reddoor

Australia
2 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  17:46:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you julypanda thats exactly what i was getting at...I wont be posting again or even looking at it so dont bother replying or debating with me....but again just wanted to say all the best to Hoxsey and my thoughts are with her..This was her post and it appears to now be someone elses..so bye and as I said before be careful when using this product on your face :)

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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  17:54:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I doubt if anyone for even a moment here has forgotten Hoxsey, who hasn't posted for a while. I know I haven't, and hope and pray for the best for her. But her story has opened up a dialog that is important--particularly whether salve "eats into" whatever it comes in contact with, whether normal or diseased tissues, the nature of salves, the application of salves, and other relevant issues that need discussion. Reddoor brought up a personal experience meant as a warning, just as others of us have brought up personal experiences in the same way--not as a scare tactic like that post, but to share important information that Hoxey opened up for us ...thankfully.
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  20:08:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I certainly didn't mean to detract (or derail) Hoxsey's post and my prayers and thoughts are with her continually. I am following this thread closely anticipating her return.
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  20:32:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
None of us have, I think I can safely say, but she's not here and even if she was, this is still relevant to her case and the questions it has raised. By the way--you look FABULOUS!!
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2013 :  21:26:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by djt10

None of us have, I think I can safely say, but she's not here and even if she was, this is still relevant to her case and the questions it has raised. By the way--you look FABULOUS!!



Thank you. I'm alive and grateful.

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Hoxsey

USA
62 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  13:49:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lots of posts with great information since my last posting!
I had my third, and possibly my final surgery may the 4th. He removed the pedicle and stitched up the forehead. Recovery was pretty easy but a little harder than my second surgery. Three days later we had my post op appt to remove stitches. My nose tip turned a little purple after the surgery, but by the post op appt, it was amazingly back to an even more normal color than it was before the surgery.

I read back on my previous posts, and am surprised to see I never mentioned that my left nostril was pretty narrow and gave me problems when trying to sleep. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at my pre op appt, and I was surprised to hear he could go in and try to open it up. Awesome!

Here's where the story turns a bit. And this has nothing to do with black salve, except for the fact that I used it on my nose, but I suppose this could be anyone's story after the fact, and this is just an example of what could happen during the process.

After this surgery, my left nostril seemed worse than before. I could barely breathe through it at all. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at the post op appt, and he attributed it to swelling, even though I also mentioned that I could see something up in the nostril that looked like a 'wall'. He never looked up my nose, even when I mentioned this. That was Tuesday. Thursday night, back home, I still couldn't breathe much at ALL through that nostril, so I went to the magnifying mirror with a flashlight. What I saw up in my nose with this closer look WAS a wall, that looked like it had 'grid work' on it. Yup, it was gauze. I could tell because I tried to pull on it a little with tweezers, and it started to come out. After much debate of what to do at that point, I decided to try to get it out. (i had been having major sinus drainage and congestion up to this point.) Tweezers in hand, and very unsure, I pulled about 4 inches of ribbon gauze out until it wouldn't budge any more. It just stopped, and it hurts too much to pull any harder. It feels like its stuck to something fragile.
I called the doc and he sort of laughed it off and said cut it off, give it a few days, it will fall out. It could be stuck to a 'blood clot'. (No, he did not knowingly leave the gauze there. It was left behind accidentally.) The second time I called him to ask if it was safe to take Sudafed, he suggested 'soaking' it in saline water, which I tried twice, with no change. I have tried everything aside from just pulling harder, with no results. I believe it has adhered to my nasal passages. I'll be going to an ENT Monday, if its still stuck, which I would bet good money that 'it will be'. The worst part is that I am just MISERABLE with drainage and congestion in my sinuses. I am convinced its my nasal passages trying to dislodge the foreign body. So until it comes out, this SUCKS!

On the other hand, my nose looks really great! He did a superb job at that part. Which is the most important part, in the end. It will take up to a year and a half for the swelling to completely go down, but in about four months, it should look pretty close to what the final result will be. It's a little round still, but he says give it time.

I can't wait to get this gauze out and end this chapter, and FEEL BETTER!

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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  14:25:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey

Lots of posts with great information since my last posting!
I had my third, and possibly my final surgery may the 4th. He removed the pedicle and stitched up the forehead. Recovery was pretty easy but a little harder than my second surgery. Three days later we had my post op appt to remove stitches. My nose tip turned a little purple after the surgery, but by the post op appt, it was amazingly back to an even more normal color than it was before the surgery.

I read back on my previous posts, and am surprised to see I never mentioned that my left nostril was pretty narrow and gave me problems when trying to sleep. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at my pre op appt, and I was surprised to hear he could go in and try to open it up. Awesome!

Here's where the story turns a bit. And this has nothing to do with black salve, except for the fact that I used it on my nose, but I suppose this could be anyone's story after the fact, and this is just an example of what could happen during the process.

After this surgery, my left nostril seemed worse than before. I could barely breathe through it at all. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at the post op appt, and he attributed it to swelling, even though I also mentioned that I could see something up in the nostril that looked like a 'wall'. He never looked up my nose, even when I mentioned this. That was Tuesday. Thursday night, back home, I still couldn't breathe much at ALL through that nostril, so I went to the magnifying mirror with a flashlight. What I saw up in my nose with this closer look WAS a wall, that looked like it had 'grid work' on it. Yup, it was gauze. I could tell because I tried to pull on it a little with tweezers, and it started to come out. After much debate of what to do at that point, I decided to try to get it out. (i had been having major sinus drainage and congestion up to this point.) Tweezers in hand, and very unsure, I pulled about 4 inches of ribbon gauze out until it wouldn't budge any more. It just stopped, and it hurts too much to pull any harder. It feels like its stuck to something fragile.
I called the doc and he sort of laughed it off and said cut it off, give it a few days, it will fall out. It could be stuck to a 'blood clot'. (No, he did not knowingly leave the gauze there. It was left behind accidentally.) The second time I called him to ask if it was safe to take Sudafed, he suggested 'soaking' it in saline water, which I tried twice, with no change. I have tried everything aside from just pulling harder, with no results. I believe it has adhered to my nasal passages. I'll be going to an ENT Monday, if its still stuck, which I would bet good money that 'it will be'. The worst part is that I am just MISERABLE with drainage and congestion in my sinuses. I am convinced its my nasal passages trying to dislodge the foreign body. So until it comes out, this SUCKS!

On the other hand, my nose looks really great! He did a superb job at that part. Which is the most important part, in the end. It will take up to a year and a half for the swelling to completely go down, but in about four months, it should look pretty close to what the final result will be. It's a little round still, but he says give it time.

I can't wait to get this gauze out and end this chapter, and FEEL BETTER!





Oh Hoxsey I am so HAPPY to see this post and am anxiously awaiting what I pray to be a desirable outcome for you! You have been such a 'trooper' through everything and your posts will help many. I pray the best for you and my thoughts are with you continually.
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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  14:26:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After everything you've gone through, it's hard to believe a doctor could be that negligent and so off-hand about it. You hear about tools, sponges, etc. being left inside body cavities, but when all a doctor had to do was take a look up inside the nose to maybe avoid all of this unexpected misery--or at least take care of it sooner, it's just too much. Document everything. Take pictures, make someone take action, get it in the records one way or another. Just because someone laughs it off doesn't mean it should be taken lightly. There are already complications for what amounts to negligence, and if it's adhered to healing tissue, there could be more. I don't mean to sound like an alarmist, but as a researcher/writer, I can't underscore enough the necessity of keeping documentation and records of all this incident in every way possible. At the least, this is unnecessary pain and suffering. It may resolve and be over with and put aside but its best to think in terms of being prepared to take some civil action if you decide to do this later even if it isn't even a consideration right now.
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Hoxsey

USA
62 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  15:35:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Blonde Ambition! By the way, in your second photo, I cannot see ANY scarring. Is there any? You mentioned makeup, so I assume there is some, but I just don't see it. I think my forehead is going to be pretty bad as far as scarring goes. Did you keep it moist for the duration of your healing process?

Djt10- I totally agree with you. I just didn't want to change the topic too much off course, but here goes- I did take video of myself pulling it out and it getting stuck, and I have thought of contacting a lawyer just on the precautionary side of what COULD happen from this. But I haven't yet. It is a little upsetting that it was downplayed so much, but I'm sure doctors are trained to do so as people are so sue-happy, it's probably best to not make a giant deal of it, or admit fault right away. Meanwhile, I am fairly peeved, and I tend to be pretty easy going about things, sometimes to a fault. But I feel a bit left to fend for myself, and that the danger and relevance of the situation has been downplayed.

I think the video is pretty much as much record keeping as I need, what do you think? (Until the day/procedure used to remove it) The only other thing to record is maybe days/times I called the doc to get his advice?? What do you think? I have tried to look up a situation similar to mine on the internet, but really have not found one. (aside from tools etc being sewn up inside a person after surgery)



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anivoc

537 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  20:14:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hoxsey

So glad to hear the end results look promising.

The gauze story sounds pretty irresponsible and laughing about it as if it were nothing adds to the "give a care" attitude. The fact that he did a good job of restoring your nose is certainly something to be grateful for but you helped him make plenty of luxury car payments for doing that.

I think he owes you at minimum a "free visit" to get the left over gauze..it may be slightly intertwined with live tissue or maybe he's right and it's just attached to a blood clot /scab up there. Maybe using a neti pot to flush it out and get it good wet will help loosen it.

Anyway what a crazy journey you've been through...good thoughts and prayers continuing out to you for a great recovery!

Tom
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2013 :  00:48:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey

Thank you Blonde Ambition! By the way, in your second photo, I cannot see ANY scarring. Is there any? You mentioned makeup, so I assume there is some, but I just don't see it. I think my forehead is going to be pretty bad as far as scarring goes. Did you keep it moist for the duration of your healing process?



Bless your heart Hoxsey.... yes, I have a HUGE scar that you can only barely see (Thank GOD!) in photos only and with a LOT of make up on... and yes I kept it super moist until it got to the 'heal over' stage... that's when I started using Anti-Scar bandages made out of Silicone... they're expensive but they are SO worth it... without these 'special' anti-scarring bandages I believe the final scar would have been much thicker, wider and even more severe. These bandages hasten the healing process and reduce the redness that's in the scar more quickly. They're 'magical' to me and I am so grateful to have found them....Here's the type of bandages I recommend... I had to buy them off Amazon because I couldn't find them locally. (I'm in Florida)....(http://www.amazon.com/ScarAway-Professional-Silicone-Treatment-Sheets/dp/B001AJ4L1E/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368336189&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=anti scar bandages)...These bandages CAN be cut (with scissors) to size AND they ARE re-usable.... just wash them well and re-apply. You will be AMAZED at how much more quickly your scarring will lose it's redness and will 'blend' into the texture of your 'old skin' much more quickly. I was initially very hesitant to use these at first because they are so expensive, but I'm telling you Hoxsey they help tremendously and make a huge difference, so they're worth every penny. I've also found these 'Curad' brand Silicone bandages that are a little cheaper and I couldn't tell a difference in the quality... if you'd like to save a little money: http://www.amazon.com/Curad-Scar-Therapy-21-ct/dp/B002QF1HL8/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1368336189&sr=8-3-fkmr2&keywords=anti+scar+bandages.
In 'real life' Hoxsey all I see is this ugly forehead scar... what you can't see in that photo is what I see every day... a big thick shiny 'white' jagged edged scar. While the Silicone bandages helped tremendously, I just had so much Cancerous tissue it's a miracle it looks as well as it does, I suppose, and I'm very grateful for that. I just wear my ball caps & cowboy hats to conceal them completely...(for my benefit moreso, I guess, than for others... everyone else is going to tell you the scars look fine and you can barely see them), but "I" see them and I don't look the same to me, and to me that's the hardest part to embrace. I've included another photo of my forehead scar with no make-up on whatsoever. It's actually more 'pronounced' in real life than this photo portrays because the Camera I used wasn't great. I hope you can see how white and 'shiny' it is and see that it 'puckers' around the edges somewhat and isn't completely level with my 'old' skin.

I've got a better Camera now if you'd like me to take some 'better' photos of it for you to see more clearly?

I use the 'lightest' shade of foundations I can find as I have found they conceal scarring best. I don't use really heavy foundations because they just sort of get all gunked up in the scar.... just use light-to medium coverage foundations and I think you'll find they conceal best once you've found the perfect tone for your skin...

Hugs & comfort to you Hoxsey....

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julypanda

Australia
43 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2013 :  04:59:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh my goodness Hoxsey. Good news that the operation went well, and you are finally seeing the start of a lovely new nose, but oh dear, the news on the left in gauze and the doctor's reaction is just terrible. I hope and pray that you get some relief soon, both physically and mentally. What you have been through, many people would have just broken down long ago, but you have just been an absolute soldier through the whole process.

BlondeAmbition - I understand where you are coming from. People tell my that my scar looks good, but to me it is quite obvious and I am self conscious about it. The only thing that keeps me going is that I am (hopefully) cancer free.... Surgery or alternative will always leave a scar.

To everyone out there - you are beautiful just the way you are, but even more so if you have fought off cancer and won. Look at your scar and say to yourself "I've done it - I have beaten cancer". Stand tall and stand proud. Look at Hoxsey, no-one could be braver than this beautiful young woman !!!!
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2013 :  12:23:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by julypanda

Oh my goodness Hoxsey. Good news that the operation went well, and you are finally seeing the start of a lovely new nose, but oh dear, the news on the left in gauze and the doctor's reaction is just terrible. I hope and pray that you get some relief soon, both physically and mentally. What you have been through, many people would have just broken down long ago, but you have just been an absolute soldier through the whole process.

BlondeAmbition - I understand where you are coming from. People tell my that my scar looks good, but to me it is quite obvious and I am self conscious about it. The only thing that keeps me going is that I am (hopefully) cancer free.... Surgery or alternative will always leave a scar.

To everyone out there - you are beautiful just the way you are, but even more so if you have fought off cancer and won. Look at your scar and say to yourself "I've done it - I have beaten cancer". Stand tall and stand proud. Look at Hoxsey, no-one could be braver than this beautiful young woman !!!!



You are so right on with everything you so eloquently articulated julypanda.... and yes, Hoxsey is among the bravest of the brave. I grieve with her for her losses and through her trials, past, present and upcoming, and hold her up in positive thoughts and prayers as she recovers.
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Hoxsey

USA
62 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2013 :  17:32:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IT'S OUT! IT'S OUT! IT'S OUT!!! Hallelujah it's OUT! Thanks to my wonderful mother- she came over this morning and we were debating whether to go to the E.R. (More expensive unwanted bills...) or to wait another 24 hours and see an ear, nose throat doctor tomorrow. It had just begun to smell rotten as of last night and was VERY foul this morning, seemed time to take action... And I was pulling on it with tweezers for the umpteenth time, mom says three magic words... 'Wiggle your nose'. I had tried this before, but not for very long. So I wiggled my upper lip/nose for a while as I pulled, and lo and behold, it started to slip!!! It finally slid out, another 4 inches- You don't know how RELIEVED I am! NOW I can just relax and heal! NOW it's 'over'. Ten months after I applied the Black Salve, I can finally see the end to this chapter. I just had to let all of you know who have been following my story all this time. Whew! The relief...

Blonde Ambition- I just want to say how BEAUTIFUL I think you are! I am kicking myself now for 'thinking' of telling you that after the post where you posted your two pictures earlier on, because I hate to hear you now say that 'that's all you see' and that it bothers you so much! I just wish I had gone ahead and written that before you told me (the forum) this so you wouldn't just think I am saying it now to 'make you feel better' or something. The photo of you in the ball cap? Omg, Just gorgeous! And you are right...no one but yourself sees the scar. People told me all the time about how they barely saw/ noticed my nose bandage anymore because I had it DOWN, and it blended pretty darn well! Yet,as I sit here and say this, I have still covered my nose even after this last surgery, as I too am pretty self conscious of it, as it doesn't look like me, and its still not 'right'. I'm not used to it, and it IS still too big from swelling. Whatever, we all have troubles in life, and when I see photos of others who have it MUCH WORSE than me, I am grateful, and stop worrying about 'how I look'.
Dr. B told me not to keep forehead moist anymore, but I am going to anyway. From everything you can research, healing is best when kept moist, so thank you for the link, I will look those pads up after I finish writing! So far, Aquaphor has worked very well for me, but if something else is better, we all need to know what is out there for 'After black salve'!
Thank you, Blonde Ambition, for sharing your photos with myself and this forum! Hey, I too, live in Florida! (It's a looong state. We could live 400 miles apart!) Thank you for your kind words and moral support!

Julypanda- you are right, we are all beautiful... It's so hard to not judge ourselves from the outside, isn't it? Thank you for your support and sweet words too. This post has become a heap of information about b.s., and I hope it helps at least one person decide what is right for them, and if it weren't for you, blonde ambition, djt10, Anivoc, deb and more, it wouldn't have been anything! I'm surprised at how long this post has gone on! (As well as my doggone journey!)

I'm going on and on...let me reign myself in.

Ok, so I decided to use Black Salve after extensive research, mostly to avoid going the traditional medicine route of chop and stitch and to hopefully 'save money'. (we know THAT 'save money' fairy tale ending so did not happen!) I ended up forced to utilize surgery in the end, and thank god for it! I'm not sure what one can take from my story as far as helping them decide to use black salve... Yes, I would use it again for sure as I know it works. I just don't know what I would do if I have a cancer on my face again. The last time I tried it on small spots around my face, every spot reacted, and I immediately took it off, as I was TESTING, and no, this is not recommended to do to 'diagnose' or find cancers. But I tried it anyway, and my face seems to be a total hot spot. It doesn't react to any other area I have tried it on. Nope, I haven't tried it on my face ever since, and that was probably eight months ago or so.

Can you save money by going this route? In most cases, of course! My case? Obviously not. I still don't know what the totals are, but my blue cross blue shield is not paying JACK so far for my surgeons fees. They have only responded to one of his claims so far, for the remaining balance of the second surgery... Of which I already paid 40% of the TOTAL up front to my surgeon. (and this one was very cheap compared to the first one, which they are still 'reviewing'.) The remaining balance of the second surgery doctors' fee that was billed to my insurance was $3,108. How much did bcbs pay of that? A WHOPPING $261.89.
Not good.
I'm only telling about the financial woes because I NEVER thought I would need reconstructive surgery after using it. I didn't even imagine it, because I had not HEARD OF IT EVER HAPPENING BEFORE. Here's the 'it could happen' story, folks. Usually you don't need it. Just know You COULD. Had I gone to get MOHs surgery, maybe it would have been even worse. More expensive. Less time to research. More pressure to feel like I had no choice but to use whatever plastic surgeon my MOHs doctor recommended locally. Maybe my outcome would have been just fine. Maybe it would have been tons cheaper.
I will never know.
All I can give you, reader, is how my story turned out. Do your OWN research, do it thoroughly, and go with your gut. That's what I did.

I am going to post more photos after this. Maybe not tonight, I have yard work to do, and the sun is going down fast... As I write, I'm watching a bluebird check out a nest box, Listening to mockingbirds growl at prospective predators, and oh, um, our dog eating grass and well, now she's vomiting.... Kind of perfect, isn't it? It's never all candy and flowers!
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julypanda

Australia
43 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  04:51:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
massive congratulations and massive hugs to you Hoxsey. I read your last entry, turned to my husband and said "this woman is absolutely amazing" and I truly mean it....
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  14:11:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After this last post Hoxsey, I can't say anything.... all I can do is cry. As julypanda said "You are absolutely amazing" and I truly mean it also.

Edited by - BlondeAmbition3 on 05/13/2013 14:12:18
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Deb

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  11:54:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hoxley - I celebrate along with you! Glib comments from the doctor must have felt like a kick in the teeth. That aside though, I'm glad that stinky gauze is out. Look forward to the future! x
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